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Posted by bsm (497 days ago)

hello my888 - sorry to hear what happened to you. I hope what I tell you will help.
I have met with the Ram team. Regarding your questions:
1. Yes met with the key people (including dr)
2. At this moment, there is no requirement to pay all upfront (monthly for surrogate fee and any medical expenses pay as you go). BUT - the laws could change in Thailand regarding surrogacy (it will be legal as long as you pay ONLY the surrogate general expenses), which I believe is the reason why Dennis asked for payment upfront for protection in case the law changes while the surrogate is 4 months pregnant. There is talk that the deadline is around September. Also remember the government might be changing.
3. Yes, if you are referring to the pending legislation and how it impacts the various facets of the program.
4. The "who is the mother" issue is also complicated by the pending change in law. Any baby born now, yes the woman shares the DNA material of the baby is the birth certificate mother. If the law indeed changes, it might complicate the issue. Partly because RAM is a listed company in Thailand and there are certain guidelines they need to adhere to but, at the end of the day, this is Thailand (there is no law on surrogacy right now in Thailand). My view is that it should not pose a huge problem and I will explain why later.
As I am not certain of your circumstances or the nature of the surrogacy, it's difficult for me to put things into perspective. However, I have read your message in the other post and I regret that you did not meet with the Dr in charge at Ram. I have and he is good (in fact better than the other doctors I have in 2 other very "reputable" Bangkok hospitals) and he can answer your questions. He makes it clear what he can do and cannot do. He also has detailed ultrasound/pictorial documentation of cases he worked with (anonymous). In my case, I was never given a clear answer regarding which name goes onto the birth certificate (I was explained what the hospital's policy is currently and what it will be if the proposed legislation becomes effective) but I was only given a definitive answer by the doctor (because he is the one who has control over this issue).
Back to the issue of birth certificate, in my case, I will be the mother. I can only tell you that the whilst the birth certificate was something we needed to consider, it was not a deal breaker because as long as the baby's father's name is on the birth certificate, the baby can get a passport of his/her dad's nationality and can leave the country safely. This implies that whether my name is on the birth certificate at the point of taking the baby out of Thailand is not that important because it an admin matter that I can deal with later and a risk I am willing to take (as long as you are with a country where if you can prove you share the same DNA material with the baby, then you are naturally the baby's mother). You need to check with the embassy (my experience is to not explain to them about surrogacy and Thailand, etc. Just ask them straight if you did a DNA test and the baby is yours then what can they do regarding passport. Otherwise they will be very reluctant to answer your questions and ask you to retain legal counsel instead).
I understand that RAM have worked with various nationalities without problems.
If you have any more questions and need to speak on a private basis, don't hesitate to send me a PM.
Can you tell mewhich hospitals in Bangkok you met with and what did they tell you about surrogacy? My experience is that they don't want to get involved.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bsm (496 days ago)

Hi Melissa Y -
First of all here is the article given to me regarding the proposed legislation (The Nation, Bangkok, June 21, 2007):
Surrogacy Bill earns approval

Wijarn Jiansane, a father of triplets, was crossing his fingers while listening to a discussion of experts on the second draft of the Surrogacy Bill yesterday.

"I hope the country adopts this kind of law as I would then have legal rights as the biological father of my children," said Wijarn, whose biological triples were delivered from another woman, not his wife.

Due to his wife's health problems, the couple had asked a woman to be the surrogate mother of their babies.

The children were then recognised by law as children of the surrogate family.

Wijarn attended the public debate on the Surrogate Bill, an attempt by the Council of State to regulate surrogate motherhood.

This was the second time the bill had been brought up for public comment by the committee drawing the bill. The first time was earlier this year when the bill was strongly criticised by experts.

Nandana Indanond, a judge who was funded by the Council of State to conduct a research of similar law in other countries and draw up the draft, said the draft put up for comment yesterday was a revised version from comments collected from the previous debate.

Under the new version of the bill, a woman can legally carry a baby for another couple, but the surrogacy agreement must be approved by the court.

The draft allows surrogate mothers to receive money, but only for medical expenses and other expenses related to medical treatment, such as transportation.

The surrogacy agreement would not have legal standing in court. A couple who asked another woman to carry a baby must be the owners of the egg and sperm and would be legal parents of the child, while the woman who carried the baby has an obligation to relinquish the baby to the couple.

The best interests of the child would be the foundation of the court to consider any cases of conflict between the surrogate mother and the owners of the egg and sperm.

Experts on reproductive technology and the law discussed the small points such as the minimum age of surrogate mother - to be 20, not 18 - and that legal surrogacy should be provided for all.

Meanwhile, homosexual advocates strongly criticised the bill as it deprived them of their rights to have their "own" baby.

Nandana said he would not revise the draft as demanded by homosexual advocates.

"We have to stick to the reason why we drafted the bill - to prevent commercial surrogacy and to protect the rights of the child born from surrogacy. I respect their [homosexuals] rights, but it is better to be stated in other laws, not this one," he said.

Pennapa Hongthong

The Nation

_____________________________________________
Here is what I learned:

- the legislation has been drafted and will attempt to pass through in September 2007
- once it is passed, it requires a formality by the king to sign off. there is an "incubation" period of at least 1 year - during this period, everything remains as before
- remember: the proposed legislation allows for surrogacy, as long as no money change hands (except for general expenses)
- I think what will complicate the RAM surrogacy program moving forward is the money changing hands. If you are keen to continue your dialogue, I suggest you work out an "all cash" payment schedule (which is what we plan to do) for the surrogate and agency fee.
- it's not that RAM will stop providing but I understand that when things become blurry (like now) and they are asked a lot of black and white questions, they simply cannot answer. Dennis told me that he starts to doubt whether he wants to continue the surrogacy program because it has become too time consuming and there are questions he simply cannot answer. It sounded to me that RAM will probably be more selective about clients.

Re your question whether it is too late to do a fresh cycle in Thai, I cannot answer but I urge you to speak to the Dr direct because he is in control of the entire process. When my husband and I met him, we genuinely liked him and felt that he is compassionate about helping.
He speaks good english, confident and has worked with many nationalities (Australians, Singaporeans, Americans, etc).

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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