Male perspective needed

Posted by murasaki (498 days ago)

I rushed home from a biz trip late last Friday to spend the night with my newly wed husband. While we were cuddling on the couch, he got this SMS from caller Carrie: "So you want me? Really? What do you want me for?" You can imagine how my heart first sank and I got very angry asking him what this woman was. First he said she's a friend he's been talking to about work. I knew he was lying. Then he told me he met this girl at a bar when he went out with some colleagues and she gave him her phone number. He SMSed her first and they started SMS conversations for past couple of months, infrequent, according to him. And apparently the conversations got flirty along the way, and dirty at times as I witnessed. He said he didn't do anything with her and turned down her request to meet. He said it's just a stupid game and he wasn't going to let it lead to anything because he only loves me.

In my mind, cheating is not about not loving your wife, but about not respecting her. The fact that he took the initiative to SMS her first makes me question my judgment about him being a devoted and loving husband. Am I over reacting? Should I let it go because this is just something men do? Or should I think that he's clearly looking to stray and what he calls "innocent flirting" would eventually lead to infidelity? Or should I think of his act of concealing the fact that he's married to this woman and engaging in this SMS relationship cheating already?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (498 days ago)

Murasaki...

I think you are absolutly right on the spot on this. He is busted. He sounds like he is trying to find some excuse that you will buy!!
I would set him straight, your right the fact he SMS's her first, come on.... I am sure he was flirting as much as she was with him, that's how it starts.
Nip it in the bud, tell him to sms her in front of you and call it quits. Better yet, get the number and YOU call her and call it quits for both of them.

Good luck

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by sunshinegirl (498 days ago)

murasaki,
i got similar experience as you. I discovered the msn conversation of my newly wed hubby in last oct, that he was talking very dirty with a girl, it went all the way that he said he wanted a sex partner.
I went so mad and his reaction was the same as your hubby that, he did not do anything with her and would NEVER do cos he loved me only. He just wanna make sure he's still attractive and needed some validation. Well for me it's bullshxt and it's standard excuse after getting caught.
He sweared he would stop all these sh*ts on internet.

Ok i gave him one chance but since then, I can tell you, our trust is totally ruined. Because for me, even you did not go to bed, but you did something being disrespectful to your wife, either verbally, mentally or physically, he has already abused the trust.

I know he still has so many female friends and still keep on internet chatting with girls but I did not catch or see anything dirty yet, but the day I discover, it's the end.

You have to suffer the fact that from now on, wherever your hubby goes and whatever he does, you gonna suspect that he's sleeping with someone else. This feeling is torturing. You needa find a way to get out of this hole. I cannot advise u on anything becos we are in the same situation.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by chris79 (498 days ago)

I am sad to say I agree with your reaction and your husband is a fool. Of course some men are a little more animalistic in their approach of women and sexuality, but it is no excuse for letting yourself go. He could have been drunk out with the colleagues and talked to this girl, but he surely didn't need her phonennumber nor did he need to initiate or perpetuate an sms relationship.
If he would really love you, it would have never even have entered his mind to do so. He just doesn't have any excuse and it is very stupid of him to think he has, very inconsiderate as well...
I feel very sorry for you, to have married such a dude...

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by mpl (part deux) (498 days ago)

Murasaki - make no mistake about it. He has cheated on you.The fact it wasn't physical (as far as you know and he claims) is completely irrelevant. What you now do is something only you can decide. The worst thing you can do is try to rationalise the behaviour.

Think about what you have both just committed yourselves to. He will probably try to tell you it was all harmless and then go on about some crap about how it was a "cry for attention" or some garbage like that. This is not a way to start the rest of your lives together.

You obviously love him deeply, hence the marriage, so I'm not inclined to say dump him over it. But at the very least I would be thinking about the counselling option or a separation to give him time to contemplate his own stupidity.

At the end of the day if this is the kind of character he is you need to make a decision as to just how much you are willing to compromise, ignore, deny etc to accommodate him.

But the trust will be shattered by this M. Only you can decide if what you have history wise with him is worth the effort to rebuild it - because believe me the effort will be significant.

They'll be many people on here who will be feeling for you girl. Keep us up to date.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mr Cynical (498 days ago)

never ceases to amaze me the naievity of the female species, or it is that women dont want to face the reality of their bf/husband fooling around?

Clearly your man is fooling around with others and obvioulsy trying to get it on with this woman.

Re-read your message, its a question "Do you want me, really?'

Think about that. Why would she send that message? Obviously he has sent her a message saying that he does want her.

The only question you need to ask is what to do about your philandering husband.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by murasaki (498 days ago)

You'll think I am totally stupid when I say this. I stayed mad at him and didn't talk to him for one day, then I gave in. It was eve of a long weekend, and I so looked forward to spending the long weekend with while on my biz trip that the prospect of a lonely weekend was just too much to bear. So for the rest of the weekend, we went out and had fun like we always did. Then when I came back to work, the reality set in and I can't get it off my mind. I really never thought anything like this would happen to me and I feel totally defenseless. Part of me knows what the right thing to is, but the other part of me, the weak part, needs him, because otherwise I'm all alone in this city. I don't want to talk to frineds about it becasue I don't want them to feel sorry for me. This is really hell for me.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by watsuki (498 days ago)

Murasaki, that's how I discovered my spouse's affair. Same excuse, same reaction, after months of suspicious, finally evidence of affair surfaced.

I did what jwm suggested above and he did made that call infront of me but it did not help much 'cause the affair continued as I later discovered. The trust is definitely broken, you've to decide what you need to do now.

Take care.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by murasaki (498 days ago)

Sunshinegir, you are right. Even if I let it go this time assuming he breaks it off like he said he would, I'll always wonder where he actually went and what he actually did everytime he goes out alone. I always pride myself for giving him lots of space. He'd go to sports bars by himself and go to LKF by himself and I trusted that he wouldn't do anything of that nature. I guess I was wrong. We dated for so many years and how could I have misjudged? I guess separation is a good place to start, maybe counseling. Does anyone have a good recommendation for counseling? Non-religious affliated counseling... Thanks so much everyone. I never thought I'd talk about such private matters in such an open fashion.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by @@ (498 days ago)

Dr Melanie Bryan is excellent for counseling -2575 7707.

Good Luck.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zelda (498 days ago)

Murasaki,
you have given him the benefit of the doubt, but obviously you feel that even if nothing happened with that girl, he crossed the line.

I don't know if it would help you, but facing the truth always helped me. The truth is what sets you free in the end. I would pick up the phone and have a chat with Carrie. Tell her that you are his wife (Carrie might ignore that he is married!) and want to invite her to your next party, your husband's friends are your friends.
See how she reacts.
Meet her, as it might help exorcise the demon. If she refuses, then you know where you stand!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by murasaki (497 days ago)

@@, thanks for the recommendation. He and I agreed to separate for a while and seek counseling in the meantime. Frankly, unless somehow I can restore trust in him, there is no future for our marriage. I refuse to live a life where I feel the need to interrogate my husband about his fidelity every now and now. Life in HK is already so stressful, marriage is supposed to be a haven, not another battle. I fully understand that married life can be mundane after a while and sex life gets too predictable, and everyone needs to stir things up a bit once in a while. I flirt with guys too when I am out about but I never hand out my phone number, let alone initiate any courtship that dishonors my husband.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Sasquatch (497 days ago)

Hmm this one's tough. Cell phones are like video games, as is the annonymous chatting of the internet. It IS possible that he only fools around with the phone and the idea of ever actually going after someone else in real life would never have crossed his mind.

What throws up a red flag here is that he actually met and knows her in real life. ie, its not really annonymous anymore.

I have to say here though that you should deffinatly lay down the rules as to what you see as ok or not but bear in mind if he really is innocent and you cut the trust and throw it in his face and make him pay for it longer than necesary. He WILL resent you for that and it will have long term repercussions on how he feels about you as well.

I know, I know, he was the bad guy here but think about it, what you do in response can change how he sees you too. What do you really want out of this. To lose him or fix it?

Maybe if he likes talking dirty on the sms then you could do a lil role play on the sms. Mssg him and flirt. let him know its you but pretend its not and say stuff you wouldnt normally say.

Maybe hes all over cheating with women he meets in bars and communicates via msg and you would be better off w/out him, but just be sure before you jump go overboard wrecking any hope of salvaging what you had or thought you had.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by gsweetie (495 days ago)

what is it with men!!!! is it just "something that they do"?? it's total bullsh*t! can we ever trust men at all?? no woner the old-schools always say better marry a nerd than someone too slick. i'm just starting a relationship and also found same problem, it's literally driving me nuts. i will definitely be cautious and watch out for myself. best luck to you, Murasaki, hope this will work out eventually!!!!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Royster Doyster (493 days ago)

gsweetie. Think back to your school days. If they were co-ed, who were the ones getting into trouble, fighting, swearing, injuring themselves and generally doing crazy things? Chances are it was mainly the boys. Boys, and by extension men, will generally do what they can get away with and, on the whole, not feel too bad about it. When caught they will lie and behave themselves until such a point as they can get away with it again. A few will be truly chastized and behave. Unfortunately, they will then become boring and start watching football and drinking too much beer to compensate.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by alk (493 days ago)

you caught him flirting with this girl. the situation with her may develop or not, it depends if whether she is willing to play with him. it may fizzle out, but only if they stop communicating or if they don't meet up ever again. truth is, he just got busted and good thing is... he is likely to stop, or be extra careful next time. forget about it.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by murasaki (492 days ago)

As hard as it is to separate logistically once you get married, he has agreed to sleep in the guestroom while we are working things out and also agreed to get counseling. I just spent most of the week on a biz trip. When I came home last night, I could see the hurt in his eyes and perhaps he is beginning to realize how badly he had crossed the line.

I know he didn't do what he did to intentionally hurt me and I believe he loves me. What I think he needs to understand is that unintentional mistakes can have very serious consequences and next time he needs to think very hard in the face of temptation. Sometimes I think men are like children in some ways that they are always testing the limit and as long as they can get away with it and as long as "technically" they didn't do anything wrong, they can live with themselves. What hurt me the most is when I caught him, he kept telling me that it was a lot more innocent than it looked and that he never cheated on me, i.e. slept with another woman. It was so ridiculous that I had to insist that what he did was total betrayal in my mind. I think unless he fully realizes that he dishonored and hurt me terribly, I will not even begin to think about forgiving him.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by canadiangirl (492 days ago)

I think it is important that you set clear boundaries and don't give in. If you let him get away with it- which so far you aren't (good job!) he will continue. Now is the most important time for you to establish what is and isn't acceptable behavior. And I don't think it matters if he actually did something or it's just texting. The problem is that it is unacceptable to you and makes you feel awful and betrayed by your husband.
Good luck : ) I hope things work out for you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jnaseer (489 days ago)

OK I am a guy and here is my advice. He is flirting because he needs something more than the relationship currently has. You can be as aggressive as you want but that would not change things deep inside. What he is doing is wrong but try to find the reason for that, tell him tht you want an honest relationship and he should be free to talk to you about anything, even flirting with someone on SMS if it is only for fun. For example if he had told you this and said lets sms this girl together for fun, would you have had the same reaction...probably not. Try to see what you can change in the relationship to make it work for both of you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by debdip (486 days ago)

Even if it's innocent flirting, he should discose thatfact to you - else your trust will be affected I guess ... that's from a guy's perspective

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by danield (485 days ago)

Hi there , take a male perspective -It is quite natural for guys to get into this trap or he might have gone bit far . what actually happens is secretly u start enjoying the sms flirting and at a point of time one should stop . but do not worry it is It is quite normal for a guy to do this and forget it later. This bit less that how a guy enjoys a x-rated movies and enjoys it and u sitting next to him also do not mind .same way u should treat this matter and get over with this .

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Aijin (part deux) (485 days ago)

danield: Enjoying pornographic work is a tad different then an interactive relationship with a 'real' person... after all what is on the screen/print/whatever is a paid professional and there is practically 0% chance of you ever encountering that fantasy in real life... Carrie at all are there and waiting and wanting.

Cyber/SMS sex with someone you know or could get to know, without the consent of your partner is IMHO a breach of trust.

(I am based in Tokyo)

Posted by Casper (485 days ago)

you should start to begin to forgive him , dont make him feel he can live without you , unless u can live without him

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by seneca (484 days ago)

I can understand the scathing profiling of men by some female posters here; may I add another perspective?
I fell in love with a number of females too - who doesn't? - and occasionally I got slightly bored or perhaps tempted by other females. Now I know you would expect a man to be immune to seduction...and yet you know deep in your own heart that a woman investes her own charisma in luring men to her, or luring THE man.
So I failed a few girls, and let's be frank: some girls failed me too.

But once I had an unusually deep relationship, much deeper than any previous one; you never know how deep you can actually go...
For the first time in my life I felt I had to preserve my integrity for one person only; she was much younger than myself, very much in need of protection (yeah, yeah: the macho man, but don't think I am a cowboy!); I changed thoroughly, wanting to be pure and innocent again (hahaha, sounds so naive, doesn't it?) and as wholesome as my partner was in my own eyes...
She wasn't a woman without history, but her history was brief and easy to tell...so I really felt I had to cleanse my soul, and I did! I improved my whbole outlook, was suddenly willing to go to any length to satisfy a normal woman's natural aspirations...for a child, a family, her own future and security...

Yes, true love chan change a person, and I was a better man after a while!
And then the brutal end: out of the blue a quarrel, not the first one, one of many, only this time it was the very end of our relationship: I had spoilt that girl, humouring her moodiness (for some time she was hormonally imbalanced and thus particularly edgy!), and she decided to call it a day.
The separation was so painful I lost weight for the first time in my life!

Maybe, maybe modern loves are entered like so many legal agreements, without adaptations to the individuals involved? You know what you want from your opposite partner but almost anyone can give you that, isn't this true? Then you discover that a partnership is characterised by tedium, repetitiveness, and you break out of the routine, on the sly, not wanting to jeopardise verything but of course never quite opposed to getting - a better deal...

Maybe if you had to change for the better in order to win someone's heart you would be less easily tempted... And I believe this is true not just for us guys but even for you gals!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by whatever whatever (484 days ago)

i got busted for exactly the same thing once, difference is i am not married. I was however being an idiot, looking for something on the side, and i got booted. I learnt my lesson

tell him to leave and divorce him

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by p-diana (484 days ago)

It take 2 hands to clap.He must have reply something to encourage the other party to reply with enthusiastic.
If he is willing to repent now,how about future?
Can you take it if.....just a if......again?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jiman (69 days ago)

but what is the sound of one hand?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by mangotango (69 days ago)

It's the sound of two hands minus one.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flokhk (69 days ago)

I believe it does not matter whether he did or does anything sexual with her, the fact that he is doing something (texting/flirting) BEHIND YOUR BACK is already a question you have to raise about his love for you. I don't and will never agree about married men/women who flirt, talk dirty to other men/women and say that thy never do anything more than just flirting because they love their husband/wife. If you really love someone, you respect this person and will never do anything to lose his/her trust and break his/her heart. Trust is the foundation to a lasting relationship, trust is not just something you give to someone, it has to be earned and kept stronger as time passes by.....

(I am based in Hong Kong)