Should a guy let a woman pay

Posted by Dorris (1109 days ago)

Me and my ex split over 3 years ago now but we are still the best of friends. We were talking about things the other night on msn and he mentioned how it used to destroy him when i paid for things for us...such as nice meals and posh hotels. He didnt have the cash to do it and I did, i wanted us to have special times and never once thought i was causing him pain and misery.

I asked him why he felt like this and he said 'because i was the man and should have been doing that'. I thought these things over and obviously i am summarising here, but should it really matter in this day and age who decides to treat the relationship. Its strange how we seem to have moved to a more equal society in many ways but yet men still seem to be pressured into thinking that if they are not paying then it makes them less of a man. Surely in a relationship it shouldnt matter who pays, it should be a case of whoever has the cash. Admittedly i would have been annoyed if i were using all my money for our survival but when it comes down to treats and holidays and breaks surely the woman can pay without him feeling less of a man. Cant she?

He also laughed and said i'd been selfish because I wanted to do these things and never once thought that i would make him feel bad by asking him to come with me. What should i have done? Not gone? Not had great vacations in nice hotels at xmas? I dunno but maybe i need to learn from this!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by ultraseven (1109 days ago)

I think it makes sense to let a woman pay, but there are guys who still insist to verify their "manhood" or their ideals. To me, it's a matter of courtesy on both parties. While I believe a man still should play the role of the initiator, I respect a woman who takes intiatives by arranging dates/trips, and pays for our meals. Simply, I will respect her more. If I pay for every single thing, my "gold digger" alarm will go off by the minute. However, I don't believe either party should pay for everything, but there should be a balance.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by yellowstrip (1109 days ago)

Hi dorris, you scratch my back..

Show me a girl that doesn't mind treating me and I'll show you a happy face, really.

For guys in this day and age, it really still is expected that the guys pay, it seems, especially if he is the pursuer and especially if here in HK. So if a guy's gf offers to treat him, it would come as a welcome suprise, really

But depends on the situation. For sure, your guy shouldn't say that you were being selfish, that's just silly. You weren't trying to make him feel bad, you just wanted to enjoy your time together which is great. Love that I tell you.

But from his point of view, I've seen what prolonged financial hardship/poverty does to people, especially if they are still young, able bodied ie. no excuses - it can make them introspective without realizing it - and if he can't pay his way, or yours on a regular basis - embarassed as well.

In that situation, it's a question of balance. And a guy's pride is sometimes all he has when the chips are down. If a girl is dating such a guy maybe she would need to tone it down so the more pricey activities are not that often, and then set her sights lower.

It could be worse. The flip side of the coin is having a lazy freeloader that won't get off his butt and likes being a kept man. That's when you need to get the boot out.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1109 days ago)

http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/relationships/threads/72062.asp

http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/speakerscorner/threads/64941.asp

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

its just money, your bf was a bit of an idiot if he cared so much about "face". Hence the fact he's your "ex". Just get over it and find someone a bit more down to earth and not choking on pride, the next time around.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Jim Beam (1109 days ago)

My GF never pays for stuff, and i wish she would sometimes ! Actually, i take that back, she pays for her own stuff, but when it comes to dinners etc, her handbag stays well and truely shut.

Go dutch people, thats what i say. If a woman is earning a wage, and in the days of equality, to me there is no sense in the man paying for everything, especially in the expensive melting pot

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

Bingo! Agree with you. Holidays...I pay my way and he pays his...most times he will pay for the hotel. Dinners I pay when I have money and most times he pays (coz I dont have money!) hahaha. Its never an issue of me never offering or never opening my wallet. I tend to pay for cheaper outings like movies or drinks...and a few cheaper dinners. Its only fair, I have a job...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by lambada (1109 days ago)

Finally, the perfect woman!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pumpkin (1109 days ago)

With you on that one JC...same here. I pay for my flights to see him and he covers most bigger expenses whilst we are together. Gold diggers don't ask for pizza hut takeaway and a couple of beers from 7-11 when asked where they would like to go for dinner so he knows I'm not taking the proverbial.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

personal opinion is that neither side should feel obligated to do one thing or the other - if choosing to pay is no longer a choice, it may quickly become an issue. of course, a lot depends on the stage the relationship is at and the financial status of the two people.

of course, if always paying is making your partner uncomfortable, don't do it. if you want to do expensive things at the expense of belittling them, you should think as to whether you should be in that relationship.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1109 days ago)

Hear, hear!

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Jim Beam (1109 days ago)

who should pay for the Johnnies ?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1109 days ago)

I pay for my own John Daniels.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Jim Beam (1109 days ago)

are we on about the same thing here ?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1109 days ago)

Probably not, but does it matter?


PS I was referring to a movie, and no it had nothing to do with French letters.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

I think if a guy cant afford johnnies, his budget might be just a little too small for even the most openminded of women.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1109 days ago)

JC, wouldn't it be a great excuse to have unsafe sex?! Sorry, I couldn't afford them, we should do (it) without them. Just imagine. And fighting over who will pay for them is of course a lust killer.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Razor Blade Giorgio (1109 days ago)

I get paid for protection.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

wow, they must really not want your kids then.

i think any purchase or use of contraception should be subject to a full contract with indemnities and termination provisions if said comtraception fails. but then again, if you can't figure out who is going to pay for dinner, perhaps you'd better not bother.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Grenade (1109 days ago)

You're a condom salesman, Razor Blade?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Vulvic (1109 days ago)

A successful relationship is a partnership, Each person should contribute to it in any way they can. From personal experience, I have shared expenses with my partners. Likewise for dinners and treats.

As a woman I would hate to feel that I was 'kept' by my man. We talk about sexual equality but many women just aren't prepared to pay for it, especially here in HK.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

that's the whole point - if paying becomes a territorial action, then you have a problem.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Who pays what in an established relationship is one thing. Nearly (maybe not Razor) all of you make sense above. But what in the very initial stages? First date. What do women expect at this point?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

Depends, I guess on what kinda place...and what kinda date. My bf took me to TOTTS our first date...suggesting that place was his idea, I could spring for 1/2 but hey, it wouldnt be the place I would suggest if I were to cover the whole bill...he paid for dinner and wine. The next date, was the next day, I paid for dinner when his back was turned (I got the bill while he was in the loo! haha)...That was at Dan Ryans..I paid for dinner and the movie.

I think, even in this day and age, its nice for a man to be the gentleman and at least pay for the first date, and if a woman were to appear gracious, the least she can do is reach for her bag only to be refused, but hey, the gesture is a good thing.

Any man that thinks its to expensive too pay for the first date...is obviously having far too many dates for him to afford, and is most likely not prince charming.

Buying flowers or trinkets are useless...showing a woman you like her by taking her to a nice meal, thats showing her you are willing to try to impress her, just a little...isnt that all part of the courtship game?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pumpkin (1109 days ago)

First date...I bought a round of drinks, he paid for the cab back to the hotel. hehe.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

hope you got the discount for showing them your ticket stub at dan ryans.

my view on a first date is that whoever arranges the date should go with an intention to pay. if the other person offers to pay or split the bill, that is something to consider at the time.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Yes JC, but we all know you are the perfect woman :) I always pick up the tab, no matter what, especially on first dates, but I still have an awkward feeling that she thinks I am pressuring her into some form of reciprocation, that she thinks I am an old fashioned fool who is not aware of Germaine Greer, that she thinks I am just trying to impress.
Are flowers really that out of touch on first dates? Sad...........

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by FOTH (1109 days ago)

Bugger - so that's where I went wrong: the flowers...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

Flowers on the first date, hmmm....maybe a bit OTT, will scare someone off. I think flowers are good for once something has kicked off and you want to surprise someone...Just out of the blue it works.

Its always good to get flowers when you least expect it, and its even better when you know who thought of it.

One example...the girl at the front desk at my office...She is ALWAYS getting really nice expensive looking flowers...and they go straight in the bin! Or they sit under her desk for a day and then go in the bin. When I ask her who sent the flowers, she always goes "Ugh, some guy!" Now, I dont know about you, but if I was a guy and I gave a woman a nice bouquet of flowers, I would like to drop by hers for a cup of coffee and see those flowers in a nice vase and spicing up the air in her room! Thats just me...I'd hate to think it ended up in the cleaning lady's loo!

Why waste your money on hopeless romanticism when you could have it fully appreciated on a sure thing? haha

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Ok, I'm convinced. No more flowers. Straight in the bin, really? S**t. I'm with FOTH.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Vulvic (1109 days ago)

Sounds like your receptionist is a bit of a madam.

Agree with JC, flowers on a first date is a bit much. Also a bit of a pain to carry about if you're doing dinner and a movie, lol.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

Ah my receptionist is named after a fruit, has heavily masqara'd eyelashes, fanclwhite skin with rosy rouged cheeks...she's very "girlie" and the guys fall over themselves everytime she sashays by with her heavily perfumed hips, dropping off the mail! haha...she's lovely...hence some "guy" and the flowers!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Actually yes, Vulvic. I wouldn't give flowers on the first date really, for reasons of practicality. But now you have put me off them long term. Choccies a no-no too?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

chocolates? Mmmmm....no cheapie mon cherie though hahaha....no godiva necessary, maybe a nice box of Tofiffee (sp???) shared, of course! haha

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Yessssssss. Swiss Lindt chocolates. Would melt anyone.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

Onlyme, Asian girls do not love sweet things much (just in case your date is asian).

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

I'm asian...and i have to agree, I would prefer something spicy...do they make chocolate covered jalapenos? I think that should please all parties equally! haha

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pumpkin (1109 days ago)

Thats right..it will make them fat then not so perfect and then they'll be single forever. hahahahahaha

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Ah, but wildorchid, maybe you haven't tasted Lindt?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

Pumpkin - that sounded like a sinister cackle "yes, come into my gingerbread house" aaahhh hahahahaha, kinda. :o/

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

I've been to the place where they produce your Lindt, Onlyme, and Godiva and other stuffs. Myself like chocolate very much. So you'd rather find out what girls/you date like instead of assuming what they/she likes!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Well, I am suitably admonished wildorchid. Never again will I make silly assumtions of a person I don't really know, such as she may like chocolates. Silly me.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

Pumpkin, chocolate does not make you any ounce fatter, especially the black ones.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

What?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

was that subtle innuendo? or was that a double entendre?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

why would you feel the need for a gift on a first date anyway? isn't this the very first opportunity to know someone on a one-to-one basis? as such, i would have thought a gift would put unnecessary pressure on the date itself? i would certainly wonder why i was being given presents by someone who i hadn't even been on a date with yet.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

What what? There were the days I ate so much black chocolate (80% of cacao), and it lasted at nearly a year but no weight gained!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

tutti, that was my point to wildorchid, but I think it got missed. She said "so you better find out what she likes instead of assuming". Bit difficult on the first date. Anyway, I don't give gifts on the first date. Agree with you, the age of romance is long gone.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

Nothing was missed, don't worry. I also asked myself why should one give gifts on the first date since I've never got one in my whole life!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

i like giving gifts! its important to gift someone something and then go "now dont you go thinking you are something special!" hehehe....makes it look like not a big deal when its really making your heart pound!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tuttifrutti (1109 days ago)

so that's what it means then. its all coming clearer now.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

I also like giving gifts. I like to watch how people enjoy receiving gifts from me. No need to give expensive things to have that joy.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Onlyme (1109 days ago)

Boy, talk about mixed messages here. Flowers, no. Choccies maybe. Sorry no. Yes actually, but no. Well really, no means yes. I'm glad that's cleared up then.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Pumpkin (1109 days ago)

Even if chocolate is not wasted on you wildorchid, irony clearly is.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Justin Credible (1109 days ago)

tofiffee??

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wildorchid (1109 days ago)

Don't see any irony here!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Pumpkin (1109 days ago)

Re the thread "Why are guys scared of pretty girls": http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/womenonly/threads/68533.asp

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Grenade (1109 days ago)

So if chocolate is not well received, what would you suggest?


A nice bit of cheese, perhaps? Some alfalfa sprouts? A leg of lamb? (Well presented in a gift box, of course!)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Vulvic (1109 days ago)

Ha ha, !!

Onlyme flowers and chocolates are always nice. Not on a first date but maybe on a third or fourth date. By that time you will have worked out if she suffers from hayfever or if she is severe diabetic.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Dorris (1109 days ago)

Yeh at the time of all this he was going through a bad patch and seemed really low and i was working like a crazy woman and had a few days off work for xmas (like they always give you in china...wow...think it was a weekend and the monday or something) So yes I was exhausted and I was thinking that I needed some rest but I (LOL) also thought it'd be lovely to go to a really nice hotel for Xmas. He was so depressed on Xmas day and talked of missing home, we ended up arguing cos i just couldnt get my head around how selfish he was being. I ended up crying most of Xmas morning in our hotel room whilst we squabbled over me wanting to make the best of it and him saying i was selfish for asking him to try to make the most of it. Guys and girls it was a nightmare and when i returned to my home on boxing day i was a stressed mess. I just felt like he hated me and didnt want my company. But as i said at the beginning his excuse for his actions was that he 'lost face' (as JC put it) and didnt feel like a man cos i paid and he thought i was very selfish for wanting to do it

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1108 days ago)

Vulvic, thank you. Clear and concise. I shall ask for a medical certificate then proceed from there.
Dorris, I love you. Any girl who offers to pay for anything (whether I accept or not) is a gem.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1108 days ago)

Onlyme, you should know that gems have a pricetag, hehe.
BTW, given the fact that love speedily turns into hate on AX, we are expecting you and Dorris to have your fight soon and that before you have that pina colada today the love will be gone. ;0)

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Onlyme (1108 days ago)

hahaha, that's good Nem. But I can always rely on the pina colada on a Friday. The only stable thing in life.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1108 days ago)

"If you like Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
If you're not into yoga, if you have half-a-brain.
If you like making love at midnight, in the dunes of the cape.
You're the love that I've looked for, come with me, and escape."

Oops, wrong thread, hehehe. Where is the mixed tapes thread again? This song always made me cringe.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Posh (1108 days ago)

hehe....just think it's the good side of being a woman!

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Dorris (1108 days ago)

tis amazing how years later your ex still has to get those criticisms in and they still affect you. Ah well thats guys and girls, i realise now that it wasnt me ..twas him! I will however try to be a bit more compromising next time my guy hasnt got money and i want to do something nice, however, xmas will always be xmas, and if it takes a nice hotel and the swimming pool etc to relax me then thats what i'll be doing....this year though im off home and i dont have a man anyways so i dont need to worry about it...lol phewwwwwwwwww :)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Posh (1108 days ago)

OH! NO MENTION XMAS1 PLEASE! awlays a big problem to los!

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Justin Credible (1108 days ago)

What????

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Posh (1108 days ago)

dont u think xmas is always a crazzzy time! where to go? with whom?....need new cooler item!

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by BenDing (1108 days ago)

women should alsways offer on the first few dates, at least to split, and then later on to pay. i don;t belive at all in the man always paying.

both shouod take truns in paying if they can. it makes the relationship equal.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Shizz (1108 days ago)

i agree, my girlfriend always went half because she wanted too until almost a couple of months of us going out.
she point blank refused to be paid for. Now we take turns, or whoever gets the bill pays, and its much less of an issue.

(I am based in Taipei)

Posted by Posh (1108 days ago)

i did split bills before. but i found it made most boys feel "face los". so i gave up it.but now its my turn to feel bad cause its really not way to do things.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by thunder_chunder (1107 days ago)

when i lived in the UK we used 2 have a game (points system)..where the number of points equated 2 what u could achieve...
1 point....a kiss within 5 minutes of meeting the shelia
2 points...a cigarette
3 points...a drink bought be the shelia
4 points...dinner bought
5...hmmm better not go there...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Dorris (1106 days ago)

thunder this game thing sounds a bit strange....who used to play it? please tell more about its usage ....

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by thunder_chunder (1106 days ago)

ok...i will explain this game 2 u 'dorris' or should i say 'nemesis' grrrr...
so u find a sucker (female or could be a male if ur a shelia) u chat them up..ask them if theyll buy u a drink...then hey presto..a free drink...as the game progresses u get more points and the guy with the most points wins..
must remember this was something which we used 2 play a very long time ago...grrr

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1106 days ago)

Thunder, I would like to make it perfectly clear that I am not Dorris! Neither am I lulu, BTW. There's only one Nemesis.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Dorris (1106 days ago)

im dorris and there's only one of me ... and your game sounds like a girls game....u sure u didnt have some kind of sex change thunder. Im really beginning to wonder about you.. :)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by thunder_chunder (1106 days ago)

so ur not dorris or lammasita? or lulu?
thats not what i heard..hmmm
and do u play drinking games?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1106 days ago)

'Allo 'allo, listen carefully, I will only say this once. I am not Dorris, Lammasita, Aop, lulu or whoever. Just compare the style of writing. You might find some monikers have the same style of writing but I'm not one of them. Thunder, you are not much of a lateral thinker after all. Needless to say, I am disappointed.

And I don't play games when comes to drinking. I like my JDs neat.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by AOP1JF (1106 days ago)

look Thunder nemesis is nemesis, aop is aop, dorris is dorris, lammasita is lammasita, posh is posh, jc is jc, shizz is shizz, cs is cs....now whats this all about? If you wanna carry on flirting with Nem then take it private (lol) send a nice message, take her to dinner, pay for it and dont ask her anything about making babies. And when thats all done dont come back here and start talking to us about the whole experience please....just go to the other thread about meeting an expat...thanks (lol) :) :)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Nemesis (1105 days ago)

Aop, thanks for the matchmaking efforts, but I am afraid that they're wasted on me. I'd only be interested in Thunder if he's a more than 6'3" tall, bungee jumping and abseiling Viking with a personality like Nelson Mandela's and a brain like Einstein's. So far there has been little evidence that he'll fit that profile. Sorry, Thunder.

Should he nevertheless be able to talk me into that dinner date, I promise I will tell all about it on AX so that people here can get in touch with their inner peeping tom. ;0)

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by The Bear (1105 days ago)

I think that whoever arranges the first date should pay. After that the 2 of you can work it out pretty fairly.
If'n my Lady comes to see me (we live in different cities) then I do most of the paying, if'n I go to see her we split fairly equally.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Justin Credible (1105 days ago)

Just for the record thunder, in Nemesis' defense, she is NOT lulu or Dorris or AOP or lammasita. Although I cannot vouch for Dorris not being lulu or for AOP not being Dorris...AOP is definately not lulu, so this really is becoming a bit of a Mensa worthy question.

Dorris uses the "lol" like its going out of style...AOP used to use a few of those, lulu, well, hmmm.....I dont remember....all I know is that Dorris is more lulu than AOP, but then again, peh....its all a big conicidence that Dorris came on the scene when both AOP and lulu made an exit. I still dont think AOP is lulu...so thats ALL I am sure of right now.

And whoever you want to ask out on a date, I think with all the thundering and chundering you have been doing on here, its only fair you pay, eh? hehehe....or should I say LOL, LOL, LOL!!!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Dorris (1105 days ago)

okay im coming clean...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by The Bear (1105 days ago)

Dorris is really Bobsal....and Ed....and thegoddesskali. It's the split personality, also means she can have more than 1 bf/gf (depending on which personality is strongest at any given time) and not feel guilty about it!
I thought that was striking obvious! LOL!

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Dorris (1105 days ago)

you got it Bear well done !!!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Miss P (1105 days ago)

off topic,I love Vulvics posts ,they make my day what a laugh,out loud at my desk...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Papayapaya (1103 days ago)

Interesting post. Going back to the original topic here, I recall being on the third date with a guy that I didn't overly fancy (nice dinner on the first date, simple coffee on the second date) he didn't even try to stop me from paying when I took out my wallet. OK I seriously did not MIND paying, but just as guys are saying they appreciate the gesture of women pretending to pay, women also appreciate if the guys would also "pretend", especially when the guy who sits across the table is obviously loaded.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Orith (1103 days ago)

I like it that the man insists on settling the bill on the first few dates. I always offer to pay, but it is a real turn off if he accepts. I am talking about the first few dates only. Later on it is "business" and I do what is fair, which is normally half-half or taking turns. Even though we live in a society that strives for equality, there are still certain things that work better in the "old way". My opinion only!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

"Guys petending to pay....women pretending to pay" Hahahaha, great! Next we will all end up like Chinese businessmen at dinner, reaching for our back pockets while pushing others aside, but never quite getting the cash out.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

And I am the great pretender ...

Gosh, I've never made a big deal out this (i.e. who pays). I think the one who initiates the first date pays, usually the guy (I'm an old fashion kind of gal when comes to that). If it's a date with potential, I will already try to set the next one, which I will be paying. If it's a date without potential, I will insist on going dutch. Don't want someone to feel getting the short end of the deal and don't want to feel obligated to have a next date.

Onlyme, you don't need to bring me chocolates (don't like them) and flowers (have no green thumb, so they will wilt in a day), hehe.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

Racking my brains now, Nem.

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

Onlyme, just a drink will do. I will buy you a Pina Colada for the hurt I caused on that other thread. ;0)

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Papayapaya (1103 days ago)

No..you're right, it's no big deal. Nem you have a point, if the date has potential, then it is worthwhile to invest in of course. My date liked me WAY more than I liked him, but I paid for him anyway, aren't I nice ;-)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

Nem, I'll bring two straws. Fair?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

Onlyme, you cheap b*st*rd! ;0)

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

Hey Nem, I was talking plastic straws, not just disposable paper. BTW, what other thread was I hurt? What did I miss?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

Onlyme, come to think of it is a priceless romantic thing to do. You know, the two of us sipping PC out of one glass. I guess we will be slicing that Milky Way bar that you've brought along too?
So I don't need to buy you that PC for having kept my tights on? I've felt so bad for hurting you while you've forgotten all about it already. Damn, when will I ever understand men?

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

The prettiest girl,I ever saw,
Was sipping Ci....der thorough a straw.
Repeat

I asked that girl, how do you draw,
That apple Ci....der through a straw
Repeat

She smiled at me, and said that I
Might come up close, and give a try
Repeat

So cheek to cheek, and jaw to jaw,
We sipped that Ci......der through a straw.
Repeat

And all at once, that straw did slip,
I sipped some Ci.....der from her lip.
Repeat


Am I forgiven Nem?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

OK ok ok * still sulking *

And now I've got
(And now I've got)
A mother-in-law
(A mother-in-law)
From sippin' ci-
(From sippin' ci-)
Der through a straw
(Der through a straw)

And now I've got a mother-in-law
From sippin' cider through a straw

The moral of
(The moral of)
This little tale
(This little tale)
Is to sip your ci-der
(Is to sip your ci-der)
Through a pail
(Through a pail)

The moral of this little tale
Is to sip your cider through a pail!

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Onlyme (1103 days ago)

Drats, I was hoping you didn't know the last part of that song. BTW, this dates us both terribly , you realize?

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by Nemesis (1103 days ago)

Yes, the littlest worm, and I didn't even start about the nineteen kids (i.e. in the song).

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by chinsesekkk (1103 days ago)

chinese boys usually pay for girls , but actually they dont really like to do that , just because the "mian zi=face" .

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Tidings 2 (616 days ago)

Any new comments to this?

I agree with chinesekkk

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Straw_berry (615 days ago)

I must say it is really sad that a relationship ends due to such reasons... It is quite the same reason why he chose to break up... It is quite sickening because he knew my financial status right from the start...

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by car_lover (615 days ago)

Most people destroy a good relationship cos of their "face". I wld say, balance is a gd thing, sometimes she pays, sometimes i pay..don't mind if a girl pay for me cos i wld do that for her too. Just found out that local girls said that if a guy asked a girl out, he MUST pay.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by happydays (615 days ago)

Not all local girls will think that way...i pay the bill sometimes when going out with my boyfriend...i did that no matter he is a local or not. as you said, it's a matter of balancing and as a guy doesnt mean that he has to be responsible for everything. he understands that too.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by csun009 (614 days ago)

Maybe I am old-fashioned. Still prefer the guy to pay for our 1st date. I always offer to split the bill but will be happier if he says something like "no need. You can pay next time".

When I want to pay for a meal, I always stress when making the arrangement that I am taking him out for dinner. This way, no misunderstanding. After going out for a little while, who pays for the bill should be less an issue.

My opinion is on the basis that both can easily afford a decent dinner. So, who pays is a matter of courtesy and consideration, not a huge financial burden.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tattooedblonde (613 days ago)

so glad this thread came up, i went out to dinner recently and i ended up paying (without the guy even 'pretending' to pay) but after we walked out of the restaurant, he said "i'll pay next time, so its a good excuse to come back and eat more sushi"
thank you Nem : "If it's a date with potential, I will already try to set the next one, which I will be paying. If it's a date without potential, I will insist on going dutch. Don't want someone to feel getting the short end of the deal and don't want to feel obligated to have a next date.
" - i hope thats true in this case *fingers crossed*

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by notmeok (601 days ago)

I don't think expats care so much about this as locals do. Am I right? In North America, people take turns paying, don't they?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by idingstay2 (592 days ago)

I get so so tired of having to pay all the time because I am in business and people just assume I'm rolling in money.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by koanji (579 days ago)

What are your thoughts about this? I was interviewing in HK last week, a mutual friend introduced me to her friend, so I could get better understand of the city. The same night, the man invited me to dinner to meet with his friends at very expensive restaurant. At the end the bill arrives, I did not hear him offer to pay my bill since he invited me, so I gave my credit card. I was somewhat upset that I had to pay but not really because we were introduced under colleague/friend terms. I'm an American and am accustomed to paying for myself or man but thought this man's were rude but could not expect anything other from him but gratefulness for introducing me to his friends. The only sum I deduct is I will definitely be more selective in going on without him again. Thoughts?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by koanji (579 days ago)

Mr. America, I am not upset my payment was accepted. I cannot expect anything from the man who broadened my network and enhanced my visit. The woman who introduced us thought his actions were rude, especially since he invited me. Sorry for missconfusion. If I extend an dinner invitation I will offer to pay but most times the gentleman will pay, but I offer. It is customary the invitor accept the bill for the invitee. Does this make sense? If it does not I understand your position.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mr America (579 days ago)

Yes, makes sense now, but I cannot undersatnd why your g/f is pissed. Sounds like he was being nice, invited your along so as to make some new friends and you paid your own way. Pretty noraml if you ask me. I invite friends all the time, but that does not mean I am picking up the check all the time. It also depends on how you were asked. If I extend a formal invitation, than I would pay, if it is causual, then, no, we pay our own. The invitor does not always have to foot the bill. If they did, then noone would ask anyone to go out for a meal,

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by koanji (579 days ago)

Interesting- to each her/his own. I received additional casual dinner invitations and offered to cover myself including the man and his girlfriend. He had purchased my drinks several times and offered numerous times to cover all us but my attempt the hostess refuted my attempt and "defer to the gentleman's credit card". I disagree on "no one would ask anyone to go out for a meal" but to an extinct I respect and agree with your position. Please note I am humble about covering myself but am more accustomed to gentleman accepting the bill but am more than happy to cover us.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mr America (579 days ago)

I realize it is different in Asia, but in the US, it was pretty common, the way I described it. Usualy formal invitations the invittee pays, casual invitations it could go wither way, but in many cases it is split.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Blood Diamond (579 days ago)

Personally, I would not feel comfy with a guy paying for everything all of the time. Now and then, I will insist on paying. Sometimes, if he pays for dinner, I will pay for after dinner drinkies. I think its pretty embarassing to keep expecting the guy to pay.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by stupendous (579 days ago)

well, i think he who has the most cash (assuming both have some of it) pays for the bigger ticket items, with the person having or earning less cash, paying for the odd bottle of water, light snack or pizza. and if friends, then going dutch is acceptable. my friends and i take turns buying each other lunch, and it's not a big expense. on the other hand, I pay most of the expenses for me and my significant other, but she does insist on paying for the things that she can afford for both of us.

whatever works, as long as everyone is agreeable and there are no hard feelings afterward.

my 2 cents.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pupalicious (579 days ago)

As I've never had a boyfriend who has earnt more than me, I've always paid the bill. I pay the bill 80% of the time my boyfriend and I go to dinner.

If I'm with friends, we always go dutch, dividing the bill between 2, 3, 4 however many of us there are.

Unless one of my friends is there, who doesn't have a job, then she insists everyone just pays for what they ordered which makes everything so messy with getting the right change!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (573 days ago)

Both Male and female should take equal turns and share, taking into account someones finalcial situation is OK, but should not prohibit them from paying the bill now and then. Neither person should be expected to be an ATM.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (573 days ago)

I never pay, and have never been asked to. Men usually continue to invite me out. The relationships have ended for other reasons. Truth is, if a man couldn't pay for me, then that would indicate to me that we couldn't have a successful relationship.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by koanji (573 days ago)

Interesting topic thanks for the pms. I agree with most replies both male and female should take equal turns and share and neither person should be expected to be an ATM. I tend often offer to pay and would do so but men typically pay for me. I do not subscribe to if the man couldn't pay for me then that would indicate to me that we couldn't have a successful relationship. But I understand your position Flashback. Again, I offer to pay and am comfortable paying or not.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by souffleQueen (573 days ago)

Once I went out with a guy for a while. Platonic dates, if you may and we always "argue" pay up time. He would NEVER let me pay, at all! Not with meals, not with movies or shows we've been to. He won't even allow me or accept some gift from me. I found that totally frustrating because by nature, I'm very generous too. He said he would only allow me to treat him if we go to Mc.Donalds ( he was very into fine dining!) And I was insulted though I know he meant well and earn much , much more than I do ( him being a doctor and biz man, me a helper )but i was just unhappy about it. Until one day he agreed I shop and cook us dinner. Two days later I went through my handbag and found an envelope with cash in it..that says " for dinner". I decided to stop seeing him. ---

On the other hand, with my last bf he would insist on paying but at least he didn't shut me off completely. If he paid for lunch, I'll pick up the next tab or when I'm in the UK ( where he is ) he'll come and stay with me and I take care of the food and beverages. We go out a lot , he pays most of the time but I would not hesitate to dig in my pocket as well. most nights, we eat in for he loved my cooking but loved messing with the chef more :)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by souffleQueen (573 days ago)

* sorry the last part of my post went missing


I was trying to say that there really should be a balance somewhere. I don't think it's an ego thing... more on " sharing is caring", perhaps?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (573 days ago)

I don't think there has to be a 'balance'. It would be pretty gauche in most situations I've been in to throw down the credit card. I guess it is the type of men I've dated over the years, who would do things like this: dinner, opera... a trip to hmv in New York afterwards to buy me the CD ... You just don't pick up the tab in that situation....

If someone is going to book a convertible to drive you to the Napa Valley... let them! Yes, it's happened... more than once. No strings attached! Let some romance in your lives, ladies, and let the men enjoy it too. The men I've dated just loved being able to experience that.

If you are with someone who is counting out the dollars, then okay... but the creation of a memorable experience is something that most people want... They don't care about what it costs. They don't want it spoiled by you assuming that they can't afford it, or by your lack of acceptance of that gesture.

If you are dating someone who doesn't live on that scale... then I suppose it is different.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (572 days ago)

No offense but I just had to say that sounds like living the life of 'happy endings'... and I would actually like to know if expectations are no different from the dear girls who 'work' Wan Chai but have a different scale?...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by helenahk (572 days ago)

I don't mean to sound catty but what scale is implied here exactly? CDs at HMV? Now a trip to Tiffany's would have been impressive.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (572 days ago)

I've got a sense of humour too. The point I am making is that a lot of men make strong efforts to create a memorable atmosphere. I am certainly no 'Tiffany's" or a LV handbag girl... I just can't get excited about jewellery or designer wear, which I think is a very easy and boring gift... but someone who makes an effort to choose a nice book for me or select a CD after a performance so that the memory will live on, instead of making me feel bad about the tab (which I don't anyway)... well that's different.

I have no comment to make about the girls in Wan Chai, but clearly the kind of situation I am in is not a survival one. I could equally afford to pay, but that is not important.

However, many men want to meet an interesting woman who thinks about things, appreciates beauty, and contributes to their life in a unique way.

Obviously, people's capacity to enjoy life like that varies. When I said scale... I meant on a grander scale... which doesn't have to mean diamonds and pearls... but some obvious attempt to understand 'me' as a person, and what would make me happy. Naturally, I try also to be very aware of others' feelings, and am not simply taking advantage of a situation. These things are in the context of a genuine attraction and respect for each other.

I suppose the 'balance' thankfully doesn't have to always be made up financially or sexually... People can and do enjoy being with each other without always making reference to those elements.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (572 days ago)

It is interesting to read some of thr posts to this thread. Most women on here agree that in a relationship it sharing or even paying from time to time is no big deal, clearly some women feel they should not have to pay and men should be humiliated if a woman does pay, wither way, I think the responses from some really define the type of person you are.

I have gotten some good insight on cultural differences, some were expected and some I just had to raise my eyebrows in shock, ahh but that's the world we live in.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (572 days ago)

Yes.. and different kinds of men exist too. Some think nothing of having their wealthier girlfriends pay for them. Of course it 'tells' something about each of us, but what that is, may not just be a simple stereotype.

We choose our lives. Some choose to control others with their cash, or be controlled in that way. I would prefer to be in a situation with someone who was my financial and intellectual equal, and where the money was not an element in the relationship.
Where we both just live the kind of life we like with each other without that coming into the equation.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (572 days ago)

Great comments Flashback, personaly for me, their intellectual abilities are mcu more important, because if you cannot hit it off at least on that level, then I am not going to be mentally stimulated.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (572 days ago)

Yes... you can't have a bore! No amount of money or champagne makes up for a stupid or irritating man! Like you, I'm out of there once the IQ, EQ rating has been established as well below par. I wouldn't date a man like that twice.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by helenahk (572 days ago)

Interesting flashback, you stated that you want to be in a financially and intellectually equal situation where money isn't an issue---if that's the case, why the insistence that you "never" pay? If one party is the one that always foots the bill, the relationship becomes logically unequal.

I think everyone is entitled to their outlook and approach to dating. Whatever works for you is fine; what's irriating for some here, I presume, is your grand tone and condescending attitude.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (572 days ago)

Thanks for pointing that out to me Helenahk. People's comments here have made me think about this issue, and that is very good. I suppose it comes down to what one believes is attached to the payment.

I suppose - on reflection - that what people are seeking here is not so much different people's experiences, as trying to formulate a social 'rule' or code.

I think above all else people ought to feel good about themselves and feel like they have been able to create a romantic or pleasant atmosphere. SouffleQueen's partner erred when he paid for the meal she cooked him because he hurt her feelings. One ought never to make someone else feel terrible. Most men do feel badly if the woman pays.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (571 days ago)

That is a very big generalization flashback. I think you would have to take into acount the circumstances of a woman paying before you can say most men would feel bad if a woman pays.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by helenahk (571 days ago)

It's very common for alll of us want to appear broader than we are. In the case of SouffleQueen, firstly I don't know how much credit I should realistically give to her claimed stories (a platonic relationship where the man saw her all the time and pampered her?); and then she professed to be a DH, not many men I believe expect a DH to pay for anything knowing what their income is.

It's not really revelent to use SouffleQueen's "experiences" as an example.

In my early 20s I sort of had the same idea that for a man to be worthy of my attention he would need to pay for every date we went on. Now that I am older, I thankfully know that I should take other people's situations and feelings into consideraton.

Flashback claims men would be offeneded if we offer to pay even occasionally... how would she know? Has she asked eveyone she's ever dated? Furthermore, I "suspect" money may have been one of the elements for the relationship not to work out in some cases. It's hard for a guy---no matter how generous he is---not to feel taken advantage of when his date NEVER reaches for her wallet.

In a financially equal relationship, for instance, where both earn approzmately the same. Quality dates in HK don't come cheap, a guy can be easily out several k in a week seeing a woman. With some simple math we know that this can't possibly stay an equal relationship with the man not having hard feeliings.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by BumpyDog (568 days ago)

Agree with helenahk

Pupalicious - does your bf know you have repeatedly posted messages on this public albeit anonymous forum revealing how much more you earn than him? Have you ever considered the possibility that he may find this humiliating and demasculating?

I know you're young but I think you need to learn some discretion and to think before you post.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwm (567 days ago)

I really would not want to be her b/f as she is so fixated on how much she makes compared to him. I think she trys to justify her feelings to herself. Who cares if you make more than him. You should be concerned with how much he loves you and not how much he makes. It in very poor taste that you continually humiliate him behind his back here, according to you he does not make alot, yet he has the honor to take care of his parents,and no, you do not, because it's not your culture, so my advice, if you want to date someone from another culture, adapt to them verses always critizing them, your the visitor here. be thankful you have some one that cares for you and wants to be with you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Tidings 2 (567 days ago)

She went from saying she has no expat friends to posting here nearly daily so clearly the culture shock is setting in.
Not to say we cannot overcome it but it's not even normal to want to distance yourself completely from westerners if you are one.

I am not judging I am saying she needs to talk to people who will understand and hopefully that it's here at ASIAXPATS.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by gracelimsingapore (535 days ago)

most men are "cheap skunk".

I observed and realized from people around me, that men who pay for the ladies relationship last longer, the more he pay the more he wants to keep the relationship longer. Marriages that had the guy paying a large sum for the ceremony last longer....again...the more they pay the longer the marriage last.

Man who has a girlfriend paying for their meals/cinema tickets/ taxi ride...etc subconciously man finds ladies who are finacially independent are less interesting then the latter.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by HK1 (535 days ago)

that's an interesting perspetive you have on this subject Grace... Sounds to me like you are very bitter about somthing. I think you and I both know that most men are not "cheap Skunk" you just have had bad expereinces. Either that of you live a very sheltered life.
Marriages that last and work the best consist of love, respect, compromise and sharing, among other things. Not who brings the most money to the table. That's just so funny I have to laugh out loud. In fact I am going to share that with my collegues at lunch so we can all have a good laugh.
You are also wrong about men finding women who earn a good living less attractive.
But hey, you search out the type of man you want and good luck

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by you're joking (535 days ago)

totally disagree with u grace..... TOTALLY! you are saying it from the perspective as an asian. it see guys here paying all and the girly sulking if she does not get more more...... it disgusts me..... women should pay equal!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by HK1 (535 days ago)

Well said Joking!!! totally agree with you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by gracelimsingapore (535 days ago)

It's true, I personally witness the fact. It's happening to all the people I know. Funny though , I know I don't understand it either ...but it is true, so true that I have learnt to face the fact. I have personally test it out myself too....(I had always felt guilty of having a guy to pay for my expenses hence have always done the payment)....apparently these group of guys didn't appreciate it.
I only dare tried on guys I was not attracted
to pay for my meals....etc and till to date they still didn't give up trying to date me out again alone.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by momo8.. (535 days ago)

Long live the golddiggers eh Grace?Depending on the level the relationship is on I believe in going dutch.I don't like to feel I 'owe' a guy something and I've always paid my share.This confuses a lot of guys (before I got married this is) but equality rules in my book.
No guy should be made to feel like a walking ATM.If you go out to dinner he pays then you should pay next time,if he buys you a drink you pay for the next shout.It makes sense.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by MangoDurianRambutanOrange (535 days ago)

When a guy pay for all....most guys expect to get reward after midnight;) if he already got his "meal" by all means get him pay for yours.

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by momo8.. (535 days ago)

MangoDurianRambutanOrange love that handle!What happens after midnight if the woman pays for the meals? Just a though hahah.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (535 days ago)

Okay... entering the fray again... one ought to know better, but MangoDurianRambuanOrange and other women like her ought not to be labelled 'gold-diggers' just because a man buys them a meal and a glass of wine... or 'hookers' either..

I agree with her. I'm sorry girls, I'm as liberated as the