marriage....

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

One, or multiple, in a lifetime?

Considering that your one marriage has been a struggle, or ends in a divorce, would you go for another one??

What does it take to take that leap?

There are so many people who do anything to keep a marriage for the sake of kids or simple responsibility towards a spouse. But, on the other hand, is it wise and satisfying to keep an unfulfilling marriage going? Even though it is based on love and mutual respect.

These days we're working harder than our parents or grandparents did to save our marriages but are we happier? For them it came naturally, for us it is hard work. Is it worth the effort?

I think these are too many questions for one thread but wise and intelligent responses will be much appreciated.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Find what you are after in our Singapore A-Z Directory

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

I often think I and my ex husband did not work hard enough to keep our marriage, even though we had a son together, and had a 17 year relationship.

Did I make the right choices; was I selfish??

I do not once regret not being with him and have long been over him but that is why I feel that I just took my needs in consideration, not my son's. He would definitely have had a better life with two parents, even though they had lost the passion for eachother, they would have loved him.

When I see so many people around me struggling to keep their marriages... I think I did not make an effort.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (570 days ago)

Why torture yourself about stuff like that? Its in the past.

What do you mean by "even though they had lost the passion for each other, they would have loved him." ? Do you mean you two loved him less or not at all because you got divorced? I would hope not. Even after divorce, parents still love their kids...and any parent who doesnt show it is kinda wrong in the head about what having a kid is all about.

Divorce hurts everyone involved, not just kids. But it is up to you and to your son how you pulled through adversity. I have been married before, I have a son who is 8 and having to deal with divorce etc...its not easy for him, but I am always upfront with him and communicate with him about everything he wants to know.

Why dont you love each other?

Why cant you just be friends?

I wish you were together...

There are tears, there is manipulation, there is "Dad wouldnt do this" or "Mum would let me" and all that other heart play, its up to parents to have a good open and honest relationship with their kids to pull them through it all. No rubbishing the ex's and of course, it helps to work on following relationships, bearing in mind that your kids can learn that it is possible to have a healthy relationship regardless of past mistakes...or that you can be single and happy.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

Of course I love him! He comes first in my life. And I know his dad loves him but somehow he cannot make him his primary objective in life and that hurts. That is the only reason I feel that if we had stayed together just for his sake, atleast he would have got his dad's complete attention. He wouldn't have to compete with his dad's gf or whatever....

Being friends... yes, have tried and done it, but cannot carry it on if I see my son being harmed/made secondary in any way.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

And my son isn't the one to manipulate or question... he'll never raise any issues... that hurts further as he seems to be too mature for his age to be like that.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (570 days ago)

Marriage is hard work. Yes, in some ways, I think SOME people give up too easily. In other ways, I have seen people who should have left a bad marriage stick it out well past the point it was good for them.

Like any relationship, if it's too bad, it's too bad and you need to get out. Divorce is hard on everyone but sometimes, it is the best thing to do. Would you rather have 2 single happy parents or 2 together utterly miserable ones?

I got married pretty late in life. I have had what I think to be ample dating experience. I am the type who does tend to stick it out too long, even when it is a clearly bad relationship. I want them to work. Getting married for the first time, for me, was a leap. How do I know this is going to last forever? I can hope. I can work at it, as can my husband, but you never know, do you?

If we were to divorce, I might marry again, but, like the first time, it would take a pretty amazing man to make me want to get married. One failed relationship/marriage is not reason to swear off ever dating/getting married in the future.

As for your son now, he should be his dad's main focus. Even if you stayed married, he might not have been dad's main focus. That is Dad's choice, isn't it?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

Very well written, tia.

Yes, for his dad he wasn't ever the main focus, sadly. Though he always loved him... can't get it when he says his son is important to him but then he does everything that shows he is only secondary. For the dad, his own life and happiness is primary. Has always been.

I decided to separate from him but thought I did let the kid have his father and stayed on in the same city. Sometimes I feel it'd be better if I moved away and did not let my son get this secondary status from his dad. It is complex.

And yes, you're right about marriage. Some people do stick in it for way longer than required, and it is that that makes me wonder if I did the wrong thing in not being in mine long enough for the sake of my son. Maybe, eventually we would've ended in a divorce, but atleast by that time our son would be grown up enough not to be harmed psychologically.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

One failed relationship, and a broken heart the second time, is definitely enough to swear off dating/falling in love/marriage....

It was a leap for me to even fall in love the second time, let alone be in another relationship... they say it happens only twice, so I've exhausted my chances...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (570 days ago)

Your situation is a bit different, perhaps, in that a new relationship for you would involved your son as well and if it is not a good, healthy relationship, you'd not want to subject him to it. I understand that.

I do not think that staying together for the kids is a good idea. If your husband has never been a doting dad as you wished he were for your son and by removing yourself and your child from that situation, you can make things better for you and son, then I think you did the right thing.

Do you think removing your son from his father totally would be a good thing? If you did that, do you really think it would make daddy come around and not be so selfish?

It sounds like you do put your son's happiness first and that is wonderful. Don't forget to take care of you as well. Once bitten, twice shy - ok, fair enough, but don't close the door just yet.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

Though I feel awful... (after writing all this I realise that I am having a bad time in every area of my life!!), I want to share something I got to hear from a friend a few days back.

She told me about a friend of her's who basically decided to stick around in the marriage for the sake of his son till he turned 17 and went away from home to go to college. He apparently has had no relationship with his wife since his son was one but decided the do the ''good father and husband'' deed and call it quits only when the son flew off.

What do you think about this?? Personally I don't think I could've managed it but it still makes me a bit sad for my son that I decided to take away his family for the sake of my happiness. Though I think he has had more happy moments with me as a single mom than he would have had if he had two fighting parents.... but who knows?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by HKBlue (570 days ago)

I don't quite understand the "These days we are working harder than our Parents and Grandparents"bit.
As the divorce rate is much higher these days, I can't see how that is possibly true.
I think that marital problems have been there since day one.And although there are some differences in the problems over the years. I doubt if their has been an increase in them.
Same old same old:
Finance
Unfaithfulness
Desire
Commitment

I think marriage is a very difficult institution and always has been. It's just not natural and never will be.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (570 days ago)

Do the good father/husband DEED? So, it's a full time job for him to do this then? Do you want that? Do you want to feel that your home life is a CHORE that you are 'getting through' til your child is 17?

If your heart is not 100% into a relationship, be it with your spouse or your family, how can you constantly grin and bear it and put on a happy face? Would you not, at the end of those 17 years, regret the time or wish you had done something different?

I am NOT saying people should cut and run at the first sign of trouble, but if you are THAT miserable that you view it as a DEED, then WHY are you still there??

Would you rather your son be privy to your fights and constant coldness with your husband OR have you as a happier single mum? Kids can pick up on the tensions. I know this. I dated a man who had kids. They told me that although mum and dad never fought, they knew that they didn't like each other. 5 and 7 these kids were. They knew. Sure, they said that they missed their mum (she left him with the kids) but they said it was more fun at home and everyone seemed happier. Your not doing anyone any favours staying in a bad relationship for the sake of kids/self.

You want your children to grow up well-adjusted, happy, productive people. Will that happen in a tension filled home? Kids grow up with what they know and see. Seeing two parents albeit together but barely speaking is NOT going to be good for him. That's not showing your son a happy, healthy view of relationships and marriage. I am sure it's tough being a single mum and getting a divorce is hell....but eventually, when all the dust settles and you'll be happier. Your son will be happier. He will see that you can overcome a bad relationship, move on and get better.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

I totally agree with you tia and as I wrote I don't think I could have lived a life of pretence for 15 years.

But what amazes me and makes me wonder is how some people are able to do it?? For kids or other responsibilities? Are they extraordinary people or are they people who don't want to rock a stable boat?? Is it courage or is it cowardice?

I know my son is a happy kid; everyone tells me this. But sometimes I feel it is only a facade he maintains. Maybe I worry too much. Maybe I come from an extremely loving family and so I always feel sad that my son doesn't sit for dinner every night with both his parents like I did all my life and did not once think I was special... I took it as a way of life; but it isn't for him.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (570 days ago)

Again, it begs the question...if your son is a happy kid and everyone thinks so too, why torture yourself with "did I do the right thing by him". I am sure he is happy that you did what was right for you and you can only hope that in the future he will know that he too should do the right thing by him. We only have this one life and someone who sticks in a loveless marriage and says its for someone elses sake, is doing no one any real favors. Kids arent stupid, they know when they grow up with parents that loathe each other, ask any adult who grew up in the old school "stay for the kids" household only to have their folks divorce when they were in college, if you look at any psychology books about the effects of divorce, the older the child the greater the toll.

There is no right way or wrong way. No cowards or heroes, just people trying to live their lives and do the best they can. A lot of parents can only do that, the best they can...coz no matter if your kids come from a broken home or a totally happy together one, the choices they make in the end will be up to them. I have had friends from really "together" homes who turned out basket cases...and kids from homes with parental suicide/screwups galore who are the most well adjusted empathetic adults I know. Just be optimistic and focus on the fact your son is doing well and a happy kid...no point dwelling on things already over and done with. I mean, how much is your happiness worth?

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

I have not yet read thee thread as focus sometimes is a problem... but all I can state is when you betroth than that is all… no more no less and end of f45kin story… til death in sickness poorer yadda yadda… I care not for convention just believe in love… but I am just a mere fool…


folk get over it all... and f45kin smile... the world is beautiful and deserves appreciation.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by justin credulous (570 days ago)

Too many G&T's already? lol ;o)

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

sweetie all I want and need to again state is that no matter what curveballs or spanners are thrown at us all there is a greater good... s45t happens but f45k it... we are not alone we have each other and we have this f45kin world... and as we all know whatever is thee best and only way as long as we see thee big picture and realise that we are nothing but life is everything... or whatever...

hic and smiles and love to ya all... and prey do enjoy x

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

ps: I am contemplating marriage again but that was and is another thread...

... but it will be for life.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

It will be but... for one I know a one almost a year ago and that indeed changed a lot of most everything.... however tis been decreed that maybe I have at best another decade to sort it all out... whatever that may be...

Anyhows love, life, luck ya all... and of course and always smile and a finger to the it all... x

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

ps again: I do not even know his name... but methinks I know love...

anyhows another thread...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by tia (570 days ago)

How do they do it? I don't know. Cowardice, I would say first. Scared to be alone or have to deal with everything again. Perhaps courage by thinking that they did the right thing. Lots of people get off on martyrdom.

AS JC said, if your kid is happy and you are too, know that you did the right thing and stop questioning.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

I guess, it is the perfectionist in me...

I think my son can be happier, and I can be a lot happier too.

If only I had the love of my life, my second love, and real and true love, with me.

That's another thread, is it?!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (570 days ago)

Love, happiness, family.... and laughter ever after...

that's all one(I) can want in life... absolute bliss. Why is it so difficult to get? Such little, basic needs, and still so difficult to attain....

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (570 days ago)

zonked: you actually do have it... and what you have is there and real and although maybe not tangible is all you need... and what you will teach your son and smile... the past is indeed history but we learn, we love and we live... cherish the memories of what might have been but never give up... you deserve it all as does your son and you do have it all and more...

Best of luck and do not fear... tis all good after all and because it must be...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by My Hong Kong (570 days ago)

Zonked...a practical advice from me:

Start dating. meet men and open yourself up to the posibility of a new love in your life. You need a man in your bed! Not any man, but someone you really like. Then you will be happy. It's as simple as that.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (569 days ago)

Happiness is a tough search. I think in many ways, we have it in front of us but we let other stuff cloud our vision.

You have a happy, healthy son. You have friends, a decent job, a good extended family. (I assume). You're healthy. You have the ability to travel, to get out and do what you need to do. You have freedom. You have love in your life from your child.

Look at what you HAVE and not what you DON'T and celebrate the good.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

My Hong Kong -- your advise is good but you said it yourself : "not any man, but someone you really like" -- that's the thing.

I want the one I really love and like, not just any other man! And I'm gonna be stuck to that... that is the stubborn side of me. Even when I know he's gone, I just want him!

Sounds pretty childish I know. But nope, it's not that, it is pure passion. It doesn't go away.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (569 days ago)

Ah so basically you are still not over your ex, eh?

Hell, I am with My Hong Kong on this...but I wouldnt go so far as to say find someone you really like...I would say just "get laid" and maybe you will be on the road to getting over your ex.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

A clarification -- I am way way over my ex husband!!

I am not able to forget my lover -- I have been in love with him for 2 and a half years!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by csun009 (569 days ago)

Zonked. Too much self-analysis is no good. Definitely not good for your mental health.

I am a single mother too and a professional woman who needs to travel 30% of the time. I also have had those odd moments that guilt overtakes me in terms of not spending enough time with my 6-yr-old daughter. However, most of the time I don't feel this way. My daughter is a lovely kid, well-balanced, in good hand even when am away on business trips. When I am in HK, I try to work from home as much as I can so that I can pick her up from school bus and play with her.

I've got a loving bf as well. Told him right from the beginning of our relationship that I'll never trade my daughter's interest for his. He fully understands that. Guess if you love someone, you love him or her as a package --- in my case, my daughter comes with me as a package.

In terms of marriage, if one day I decide that I love a man enough, I'll get married again. And, might even consider having another child!

Stop the tortuning self-criticism and move on with your life. Enjoy each day at a time without losing the perspectives!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (569 days ago)

csun009: EXCELLENT! I agree.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (569 days ago)

Zonked: unrequited or lost love sucks but you have to get on with this beautiful life for the meantime… I know it hurts and is occasionally neigh on impossible but you must if only for your Sons future welfare… after all you are shaping another heartbreaker by pining after one of the ones… tis not healthy for you nor him.

Do as others have suggested and put yourself back out into the affray…it may not help but at least you will have divine and entertaining distractions. I do not know when the haunting will end if ever but the meantime and life deserves and needs to be enjoyed.

Smile, relish the memories but make new ones too…

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

I've had a fair share of flings after I separated from my ex husband. And then I fell in love....

Maybe that should not have happened. Because unfortunately, that relationship rather than being healing to my once broken heart, turned out to be highly traumatic. That I still am very much in love with him is true but that I can't be with him has led to too much turmoil in my life, holistically.

Everything seems to be going wrong. I am arguing with my ex again, putting my son through unnecessary trauma, keeping longing for the man I love.... just feel I have messed up and putting everyone through a hard time when it is actually my frustration.

Now I do not even wish to have any flings. It's not me.

I am not an unhappy person but I am not leading a fulfilling life either. It bothers me immensely.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by csun009 (569 days ago)

In terms of dealing with ex, don't set too high expectations. When negotiating the settlement with my ex, I had a bigger slice of our shared asset but didn't ask for any allowance for myself and my daughter. I have full custody as well but we still holiday together a lot as a family and my daughter sees her dad every holiday (he resides in Canada). I am grateful for everything he does for our daughter.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Jalous Uranus (569 days ago)

I note your other thread on custody.

I feel your expectations are too high, not only for other but also yourself. Life without disappointment is no life at all. It seems you want your son to grow up in some sheltered and unrealistic life - not healthy at all.

Also, you're not the only separated/divorced parent in the whole world - there are countless numbers out there.

Getting on with life and picking yourself up is something very healthy indeed. It may also help your son in so many ways. He'll have a mum who's not going to mope all day long about the loss of a husband/father, and you'll also demonstrate that no matter the hardship, one still has to persevere in life.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (569 days ago)

I still think the go out and get laid advice is sound advice. Will be more enjoyable than brow beating or getting on your ex husbands case.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by csun009 (569 days ago)

Go out and get laid is not everyone's cup of tea. Think hard whether you are generally happy with your current life. If yes, maybe you are just bored or lonely. Go out with some dear girlfiends, dine/wine and chat. I used to do this a lot after my divorce and felt really good afterwards!

If you are more into intellectual challenges, how about enrol yourself into a language course, Master's programme or even start on that PhD thesis! Lots of ways to keep yourself occupied and fulfilled. Life is too short to have this hanging anger with your ex!!!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (569 days ago)

Zonked: first things first… get to a lawyers and get a divorce and get the custody issues sorted out fairly and legally… get closure in at least one area of your life… and then maintain the momentum and attempt to move on with the next step…

You do not love your husband anymore, he is cohabiting with another woman… accept this and do not worry about her influence in your Son’s life… trust your ex’s choice as no doubt he does love his Son and would not expose him to harm or bad influences. You have moved on and fallen in love again… let him.

Regarding the next step… the one whom you cannot stop loving… I have no idea but clichéd as it may well be time will help and so will attempting to fall in love again… even rebound relationships can do good as they do offer a welcome distraction to the need for love.

Anyhows do not fear but you must break this routine of blame and frustration. You have admitted your issues and the root causes but it is now time for action. Good luck and yup do get laid in the meantime... you'll either feel better or worse and that is far better than this stagnation phase... enjoy.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

JC, I think I differ from you on that. I do not believe in getting laid.

It is one of the easiest things in HK but not my cup of tea, as csun009 has pointed out.

It won't do me any good either. Believe me.

Yes, maybe I should get a little easy with my ex husband and also with myself regarding my son. I know I am an obssessive mom... there're reasons for that too. But I won't let myself go crazy over that.

Thanks for all the encouragement and wise words.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

Jalous Uranus -- nope, I do not expect any special treatment for being separated/divorced! It was my call in any case!

Also, my son loves me and is proud of me as he knows I am a strong woman.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by momo8.. (569 days ago)

I think JC means you need some distractions in your life rather than drowning in problems and torturing yourself with regrets and 'what ifs?'Getting laid is good,makes you feel attractive and wanted no pressure so I think it's good advice.Staying in a relationship without a future is very unhealthy,nobody benefits.Channel your energy into something positive.Change is good.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (569 days ago)

Indeed, its not a matter of differing on that...its not like I need to go out and get laid all the time just to feel better, I kinda am pretty happy with my life as is, divorce and all! Lol. As momo (better explained it) you need something to make you feel attractive/better/appreciated...even if its simply feeling like a "woman" and not someone craving love or whatever else thats a bit harder to come by. It seems like your self confidence is flagging a bit...thats all.

Just bear in mind its only a temporary thing.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Pupalicious (569 days ago)

As a child who has parents who 'stayed together for the children' ... please don't!

No child wants to see their parents fighting day after day after day! Even if you pretend, kids know you hate each other and you're not happy. Just like you want for your kids, you kids want you both to be happy, and if you're not happy together then we want you to split up!

Christmas was the worst for me. My mother would buy everyone lots and lots of gifts, and she'd get my dad nothing. And dad would try to at least be civil.

It's not fair! Just split up and save your kids some heart ache. Staying together for the kids is selfish and it's not fair! You're not doing it for the kids, you're doing it because ultimately neither of you wants to be alone and that's selfish!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by momo8.. (569 days ago)

Kids bounce back always quickly,adults take more time in doing so.Then after you stay with their father 'beacuse of the kids' you will always say to them in the future 'Oh all I sacrificed for you so you can have a father' and no way will they appreciate it.The reality is children are very resilient and would rather see mum happy then pining after dad every day and unloading on them when they are older about how horrible dad behaved running off with the 'other woman'.
Definitely get out of an unhappy relationship.The first cut is the deepest but stop the emotional hangups get out and get laid and find new interests.Hanging on to dead wood the children involved will never thank you.Mariage is an institution.Some are happy to be comitted others can't wait to break out of the crazy life.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zonked (569 days ago)

pupalicious -- just calm down; it's your young age or is it your attitude?? You are just way too judgemental! I've read your responses on other threads too. You preach and presume you are right. Don't call someone selfish without even knowing the whole truth... just give your opinion and your job is done here on the forum. Do remember the next time.

I don't think you've even read the thread properly.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Gilmore (568 days ago)

Zonked, I think you are just going through a rough patch. You need to take a step back and not second guess the decisions you've made in life. They were made for a reason, and you need to keep reminding yourself of those everytime you doubt yourself. I can understand some of the things you are going through. I recently seperated from my husband, and there are times when I still doubt my decisions - am I doing the right thing for my child? Should I give my husband a second chance and try and save a marriage that I was really unhappy in? Was I being selfish? These are the questions that I torture myself with from time to time, whenever I hit a low point. But then I try and think of everything I went through and how I felt (especially how I felt), and know that I made the right decision for myself and my kid. My husband is very much like your ex - tells me how important our child is to him, but still puts the minimum effort. I know that my child is happy now. One day I'm sure I'll have to answer questions as to why Daddy is not living with us, or why he left, but I will deal with it then. I'm more or less content with where my life is headed now, and I am optimistic that I will find love again. And that's what you need to keep in mind - that you will one day love again. This lost love you keep regretting was never meant to be. That's why it didn't work out. As much as you want romantize it, don't forget the reasons why it failed. Whether it's his fault or yours, it comes down to the fact that it wasn't right for you or for him. At least not at this time. try be positive and think about the blessings in your life. Like your son. You need to be confident about who you are and the choices you've made. Life will happen. You need to just pick yourself up and move on. And don't look back. Sure there will be things you regret, but that's life. You have to hold your head up high and keep moving. Not wollow in self-doubt and misery. Leave your ex be. You cannot change who he is, and fighting with him is a lost cause. Ultimately it's going to be his loss if he chooses not to be a good dad. Your son will be fine. By the sounds of it, he's thriving. Be happy about that. And make sure he understands that whatever happens, it's not because of him. And that he has a mom that thinks the world of him and will always make him a priority. Oh, and give yourself a break. You are doing the best you can and have the best intentions for your child. Give yourself some credit that you are doing the right thing for your child and for yourself.

(I am based in Unspecified)