want to get a baby bu tdon't fancy getting married

Posted by insane (583 days ago)

Hi i don't know if anyone has the similar situation.

My parents broke up when i was young. I never trusted marriage since then. I would like to hv a kid now but i don't want to go thru the 'getting married first and then have a kid' process.

I think my bf would love to be married before having kids. He's come fm a very healthy english family. I don't care much about marriage/wedding and I think it is only costing loads of money ,alot of work and it's like a show more than anything else.

Anyone wants to share their experience?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by Pupalicious (583 days ago)

Have you asked your boyfriend if he would like to stop using protection?

I also come from a happy English family but recently my parents are getting a divorce. I still believe in marriage though, and I want to give my children the stability of two parents who are married.

It is the modern world though, my view is rather traditionalist.

Talk to him about it? Tell him you love him and want to create a life with him. Maybe in the future you will want to get married, who knows?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aijin (part again) (583 days ago)

I think you can and should have what you want... you do not need a marriage certificate to have a baby... all you need is love.

Enjoy and best of luck...

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Mrs Miggins (583 days ago)

Personally I am the old fashioned type who thinks that you should be married before you have a child. One of the reasons is for security and practicality. For example I have a friend whose partner recently died, they were not married but lived together in HK for 15 years. He had no will and his family are fighting hard to make sure they recieve his estate, not her. If she had a kid it may still be difficult to lay claim on any of his estate. I was recently told by a lawyer that he knew of families who were destroyed by the Father passing away and having no will. Even though they were married it can take up to a year to sort things out. He has seen kids put into care because of financial problems. If you have a will, it can take days. I have another friend who is not married and has 2 kids. The man left her and she has to go thru a very troublesome process to get any cash out of him to contribute to keep the family.

My point is that if you are not married and it doesn't work out and you have a kid or your partner dies, things are not always that clear cut. Oh, and make sure you have a will, married or not!

Personally, and I repeat I am old fashioned, I could never understand people who would have a kid together but not want to make the commitment to each other legal.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (583 days ago)

If your bf wants marriage before kids then you best not go and stop your birth control pills without him knowing full well whats up.

Your hangups about marriage...well, its a piece of paper, why bother being hung up about it, right? Plus it matters to your bf and his family, so you best think about whether you simply dont want to marry or not. If you want a kid, there has to be a compromise on the marriage front, as in, have a small cheap wedding at the registry...not all marriages are "show and tell" and expensive, many people choose to skip the pomp and circumstance.

A lot of folks have divorced parents but still have faith in marriage or the future they can build. You dont have to repeat the mistakes of your parents...your future is your own, you can make more of an effort to have a successful relationship.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by MayC (583 days ago)

Marriage doesn't have to cost A LOT of money. You could just be married at the registry office if you don't fancy walking down the aisle or having a banquet.

Your parents' divorce would have the biggest impact on you growing up (that's why they say that divorces are not just about the adults but the kids as well)..... but one divorce shouldn't spoil it for you.

If you look at it, you want to have children with him and you want to live with him. That's no different to being married. But one bonus about marriage is that it is a declaration of commitment.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by machree (583 days ago)

That's not a problem. I know a happy couple who are great to each other. They have the cutest baby who's 2 years old now. They are having fun and enjoying the life now...

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Saikunga (583 days ago)

That is great - having children is a bigger commitment to each other than getting married.

This why marriage comes first - to see if you can actually do it - make a commitment - if you can make that big a step , then you may be ready for the next one in having children.

What is the difference to you to being married or just being together?

People who are not married are more likely to break up (divorce if you like) than people who are married. What is the difference?

The difference is that you have legal, emotional and financial obligations to each other when married - if not married you still have the emotional, financial and only legal after a certain amount of time. It is harder to get divorced than to just leave someone - this is a stop gap for your family, people who are married tend to work harder at staying together.

It also gives your children security as they grow up. If you are not ready to commit to this guy in a legal sense, I would suggest that you don't have his baby.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by sam_123 (583 days ago)

I totally agree with sikunga. Parenthood is a bigger commitment than getting married. Being a recent mum of a baby, I know what a challenge it is to raise a baby, and the commitment demanded of BOTH husband and wife is tremendous, because early stages of parenthood are not rosy and sweet. There are many sleepless nights, sex life takes a sharp southern dive, all thse result in many many arguments. You only have to look in the 'moms and dads' forum to see the multitude of problems parents face in raising kids. Call it physchological but people who are married tend to try a little harder at staying together. Yes, you have bad experience with your parents but surely you are now adult enough to realise you are different from them and confident enough to realise you can make darn sure your marriage would be tons better cos you are not gonna make the same mistakes as them in their own marriage.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by zelda (582 days ago)

There is no guarantee that two married people will produce a child...i'd try to conceive first and then get married if your partner is really keen on the idea.
A child is forever...partners come and go. Not ideal for the child, but marriages last less and less...i understand the original poster's cynicism.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by insane (582 days ago)

As Saikunga said - if im not ready to commit to this guy in a legal sense,i shouldn't be having his kid.

I disagree with that. I don't need a legal sense to prove to him that i love him enough. To weither sign a paper or not doesn't mean the love for him is more or less.

How many ppl are cheating after they get married? Just go to the relationship forum. Funny enough i think the bf and gf couples sound happier.

I understand about the commitment part -but i am also commited otherwise this bf and gf relationship wouldn't have last for 4 yrs now. I just think when it comes to the paper works things become ugly.

I don't know what's up with me. Im just scared with the idea. Seems to me that if he's got a gf, he would always be there. If the girlfriend turns to be a wife, he would start going out to look for a gf again...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by insane (582 days ago)

the 'he' i meant up there - MEN, just in general..

My bf is trying to tell me that he loves me and he doesn't fancy other women. It's nothing to do with him tho it's more like my own issues.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Tidings 2 (582 days ago)

I think unmarried couples have as much of a cheating issue as married couples.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Saikunga (582 days ago)

I think you need to get some issues sorted out yourself before you have a baby. Trust, for example. If you don't trust him not to cheat after marriage - what's to trust more if you are not married??? Doesn't make sense to me.

It is not the marriage that is the problem - it is kids. kids complicate life, some men cannot cope with kids in general, some men can't cope with the women dealing with kids, both parents need to work together with kids and some don't - this is what causes marriage failure in some cases.

If you don't trust him don't have kids. Having kids will be more of a problem than getting married.

I think you are confused, and not ready to deal with big issues yet - so maybe , get your issues resolved before you have a baby because they will only manifest themselves when baby arrives.

Your reasons for not getting married are not holding up in my book - they are just excuses for your lack of confidence in yourself and your abilities to do better than your parents in marriage. You have a failure mindset to begin with so you probably will fail - so don't marry him because you might fail, don't have kids becasue you might be a lousy parent, don't go for that job promotion because you will be no good at it, don't go on holiday because it will might rain... don't blow up a balloon because it might burst - get a grip on your life and get a life.

Life is about risk and making decisions that will help you enjoy it. If you don't do something just because it might not work out - you miss out on so much.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jwng (582 days ago)

Just a thought, have you thought of the possibility that without marriage to hold on to, your bf might not want to stay in your lives (you & baby) and you'd end up as a single parent? Believe me, you'd want as much help as you can in caring for a baby.

And also, because of your parents' actions you are now traumatized with marriage. Just imagine what hang ups your child will be having with an unmarried parents. You're definitely NOT breaking the cycle.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by boredtotears (582 days ago)

I am very opposed to having children out of wedlock unless you live in a country where you can adopt a starving child.....even then, the best scenario is to have a mother and a father

(I am based in Macau)

Posted by clan (581 days ago)

How is having a baby out of wedlock not giving a child a mother and father, boredtotears?? A child of divorced parents still has a mother and father. I also know many people who have adopted a child as a single parent and are doing a fabulous job. Marriage is not a guarantee of a child's happiness. Can you please explain how wedlock makes the difference?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by lambada (581 days ago)

Make no mistake. Marriage is not just a bit of paper! It's a very serious legal document. Just try getting out of one.

As for me, my first son was illigitimate and the second was born after we married. I don't think either of them has given it a thought. They see us as embarassing 'hippy' parents. When we divorced, there was no differentiation between the status of each child, when I as a man took over care and control of both children once agreed by both parties. I think that would have been much harder if we hadn't been married. Interestingly, as they didn't have a mum around for many years, they are both very serious and loyal in relationships. I guess they don't want to repeat the experience!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pupalicious (580 days ago)

Insane, if you think getting married wrecks a relationship, try thinking about what effect a child would have.

Personally I feel that if you don't want to get married, then don't. This is the modern world, many people live in domestic partnerships and are perfectly happy.

However, children require constant attention and put a lot of strain on a relationship married or not. They need feeding every 4 hours at the start, and they need changing, and love. They need a lot, and when you're giving the child this, you're not giving the same attention to your partner.

Your partner is more likely to cheat on you (statisticly) when you're pregnant and uninterested in sex.

I personally want to get married and have a big wedding, and a princess dress and have all my friends and family witness how much I love my boyfriend and how dedicated we are in staying togehter for the rest of our lives. And it's an excuse for a big old party that everyone we know will come to.

But I know that maybe a year after I get married, and we start making babies then my life will no longer be my own. I won't be able to drink for nine months (which will almost kill me) and I won't be able to go to smokey environments, and once the kid is born I won't be able to leave it unattended for any reason (I don't believe in Nannies, my mother raised 5 children with the help of 2 husbands, I can do it too) and my life will be over. I will no longer be myself, I will be forever more my child's mother.

Just remember that, insane. If you think getting married will cause him to cheat, wait till you have a baby!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (580 days ago)

Wow...there are so many negative comments up in this piece! :o) lol.

I dunno...I dont think being a mother is all you become once you have a kid...there is more to life than that, its mothers who overdo it and make their kids their life and purpose...those are the moms who lose their identity and allow themselves and the world around them define then by the fruit of the womb!

Having kids is an awesome and wonderful experience...some adults are ready, some are not...some learn fast and some never want to, not everyone is born to be a good parent, but many do their best...which is all that matters really.

To insane though...this isnt an issue of whether it would be a good idea to follow through with what you want, your problem is you want a baby now and your bf wants a baby too, just not out of wedlock. Thats a pretty valid and real thing. He wants a child that is not illegetimate. You may not think its a biggie, but it is here in Asia...and more importantly, it is for him.

So whats the big deal?

I think you need to talk to a therapist/counsellor to work through your issues with your parents divorce, your trust issues, why you feel you cant fully open up and commit yourself to what you have...and see where you get with that. If you need help with finding a counsellor, let me know...I can recommend someone good. If you have good insurance coverage through work I think you can find ways to get a referral from your doc that will get your insurance to cover it or at least part of it.

I'd say better to be mentally completely together, both you and the bf, before making any plans to bring a new life into the world where the two of you may be at loggerheads at times.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by insane (580 days ago)

Hey thanks to all.

Pupalicious - I don't think my bf's gonna cheat on me (or i don't really spend much time worrying about it). My argument is - why i need to get married for making him to be committed to me? He can love me all he can even if we are not married.

Kids can still call us father and mother? We are still their father and mother. I think doesn't matter we are married or not we will still love them to death. I havn't thought about the legal issues (maybe less tax or smth like this). That's a point too.

Also i understand babies are having to be fed 4 hours to start, needed changing - but i don't understand why these needed to be pointed out. Even my bf isn't my husband isn't that also his responiblies to take care of the kid too?

I don't marry him, doesn't mean he doesn't need to care about our children?

J/C - yea i know, he wants to get married, i don't..and seems all women think he's the one with correct mindset and i don't. So there isn't really a big deal in fact.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Meiguoren (580 days ago)

Paperwork has nothing to do with it! In some cultures, people just go out and jump over a stick to symbolize that they are committed to each other. I think that what happened to your parents had nothing to do with what was in the papers; they would have broken up even if they had just lived together. As it was, the paper gave some protection to one of the spouses, as others have pointed out. Not just in case of divorce or death, but also for many, many other purposes (e.g. insurance, bankruptcy, legitimacy and custody of children, retirement benefits, to name a few). The only risk stemming from your parents' divorce is that you might have learned bad habits from them in terms of how to have a healthy relationship, but if you've already lived together four years and still happy, it sounds like you've gotten beyond your parents failure and are actually well capable of the kind of commitment it takes to have a happy marriage and family life. Why deprive yourselves of the deep joy and trust that comes with a fully committed life? Yes, there are failures in marriages, unfaithfulness, and there are a lot of people posting on this forum who have no clue about what a committed life entails, but a strongly committed relationship is possible and can be very joyful -- as well as happy, loving, long term, fun, faithful, DISEASE FREE (ha ha), -- and those things lead to great freedom, trust, faith, and even greater love and joy. Good luck!

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by justin credulous (580 days ago)

>insane - I dont think you seem to get what people are trying to point out to you:

You want a baby WITHOUT getting married.

Your bf will be happy to have a baby AFTER marriage.

If you want a baby OUTSIDE of marriage, find another bf!

Simple as.

Why the need to discuss with strangers...none of us are going to be the ones asking for your hand in marriage only to be refused! I think its you who needs to know that if one of us was your bf and the uncomfortable shoe was on the other foot with you asking to have a baby NOW, the answer would be NO, not without marriage.

So basically, lets face it, you are with the wrong guy. Either you face up to the responsibilities of not being so selfish about your hangup, or simply stick with it and find some other guy to give you a wonderful and illegetimate kid.

Forget the comments about cheating or whatever...the fundemental difference between you two IS infact a BIG deal now that I have had a think about it...you dont seem to want to budge, so better to find someone who thinks like you...coz dont go thinking that having a baby will make your bf commit, that would be entrappment if you both dont agree on it first. Trust me, he will NOT take to that kindly.

Good Luck.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by justin credulous (580 days ago)

I mean...could it be as simple as you have come to the crossroads and you dont want to be with this guy? If you cared enough about what would make him happy...why would you be so darn stubborn about it? Especially when you think marriage and the piece of paper isnt really worth the pomp and circumstance? I mean, why else would you come up with all the lame duck excuses (its too expensive, its just for show, my parents divorced, I dont want to...)

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Wheelymate (580 days ago)

my husband used to be terrified of marriage - he saw his friends who got married for all the wrong reasons. but at the same time, he said he wanted to be with me and would want to have a child together, with out without marrying.

but i disagreed - my preference is to get married before having a kid!

but things happen, people feel differently with time. he proposed, we got engaged and 10 weeks before our wedding (when he was away for his stag weekend), i called him to say that i was pregnant! we were obviously delighted, the only downside was that i couldn't drink my own wedding....:) we are a very happily married couple with a beautiful child and wouldn't want it any other way.

anyway, it doesn't work that way for everyone, some people will be very traditional, some not, some sit on the fence...i don't want to preach about whether you should get married first or not but i think the key is whatever decision you make, it needs to be something BOTH parties agree and are comfortable with and STICK WITH IT.

good luck!

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by Pupalicious (579 days ago)

I know. MY point is i don't have issue about my boyfriend cheating on me. I understand not every guys would cheat on their wives.

Im still with 'him' coz i know he loves me.

I was just pointing out that JC is wrong that's all.I am happy and i will be doesn't matter getting married or not.

------------------------------------------------

I hope you don't mind me posting your reply here, I'm worried about taking over hotwheel's thread when you have a perfectly good thread of your own.

I believe you have the right to get married or not as you see fit. And having a child when you're not married is totally your perogative.

However, your boyfriend doesn't have the same wants as you, so either someone has to give in and change, or you have to find a boyfriend with the same beliefs as you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by insane (579 days ago)

We talked about last night..I would get married if it's good for the kids.

And i don't have a kid yet..so i still have time.

Marriage is probably a good thing to happen anyway. I don't see a link between my post and Hotwheels. Do u?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pupalicious (579 days ago)

I don't, but I do understand your point.

If I could offer an experience of my own into the mix.

My cousins who were very happy together had two children and were unmarried. If this offends anyone, I'm sorry, but they were working class and had a very different life to me, but they seemed very happy. Their children aren't the best educated due to their social status and all that, but they're happy kids. I think the eldest is 20 now, or there abouts.

My cousin's girlfriend, the mother of his two children eventually got cancer. She was going to die. For legal reasons, and for the children, they got married just before she died, so that there wouldn't be any legal questions after she was gone.

They were a lovely family, and they were always a pleasure to hang out with and go on family outings. I was like a big sister to my cousin's children and it was all good.

I really don't think you have to be married for the sake of the children or anything like that. It does help out legally, though.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by insane (579 days ago)

thanks Pupaicious. thx for sharing.

I m not trying to against my bf's idea or anything..i just thought some ppl want to get married and some don't. If i am thinkin of respecting his decidion he also has to respect mine. It's not a right and wrong thing.

J/C mentioned - why i discuss with strangers? I did it coz now i realized the legal issues which i never thought about before. That's WHY.

And everyone here is discussing with strangers - it's not like they can't solve their own problems but they just wanna know what ppl think about the matters.

J/C - some posts you are giving some good comments but seems that you only comment on some ppls' sad posts. You would go "oh im sorry ...blah blah blah" No one needs to be comfort, sometime the truth hurts but that's the truth. It's no point being "oh i feel for you..i m sorry for you.." they can go to their parents if they need comfort.

Sorry if i offend anyone. It's only my opinion of course some ppl disagree with it.

Take care

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (578 days ago)

insane - *self edited* Good luck for your future and hope you have the life that will bring you joy.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by insane (578 days ago)

J/C - i just read thru your post why you deleted it as soon as i read it thru.

Anyway thanks. You said i was really rude with the other poster. I don't think so. I was just telling her what i thought was right to tell that's all.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (578 days ago)

Edited solely for you, as I know you are easily upset so I thought better than to bother explaining.

As you say, you dont think you were rude to the other poster...then read what you must into whatever you will.

I will now leave the floor open to others on your thread. :o)

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by chonJAY (577 days ago)

thats a funny reflection on our culture.. marriage has been reduced to legalities.. making life easier in society's eyes.. and oh so true... religion.. marriage.. cheating.. divorce..
marriage is completely irrelevant as far as feelings are concerned. if you are in love and you want to have a baby. i say go for it. if in the future, you are not in love anymore, then go find someone else to love. then there are four happy people to look after the babies welfare, instead of two miserable people..
insane, i think you are brave to venture out against society and do what feels right to you.. freedom is a lovely thing.. someday, hopefully.. more will follow...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Saikunga (577 days ago)

The only problem with babies is they turn into teenagers - not small cute and cuddly anymore...

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (576 days ago)

But as my mother always said,"The first two years of your life make up for the rest of it!"

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Saikunga (576 days ago)

then it should come after teenage hood

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Frankiemks (574 days ago)

I have never think of my bb is so cute & lovely, that I only know when she came to this world, therefore if I was too worry or think too much and missing this chance then I think I will not forgive myself in whole life.

(I am based in Hong Kong)